[1. CALL TO ORDER] [00:00:09] >> WELCOME TO MONDAY OCTOBER FIFTH 2026 MEETING OF [2. AGENDA APPROVAL] CARMEL CITY COUNCIL, AGENDA, AGENDA APPROVAL. >> SECOND. >> -- INVOCATION WILL BE DONE BY THE COUNCIL'S PASTOR. COUNCILOR THERESA. >> GOOD EVENING THANK YOU. HEAVENLY FATHER THANK YOU FOR BRINGING US TOGETHER THIS EVENING AND SERVICE TO OUR COMMUNITY BRINGING US WISDOM IN OUR DECISIONS RESPECT FOR ONE ANOTHER AND COMPASSION FOR THOSE WE SERVE. PLEASE BLESS OUR CITY AND ALL OF THOSE WHO CALL IT HOME, MN. >> AND WE HAVE DEPUTY MAYOR TO LEAD US IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE PLEASE. >> I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. >> RECOGNITION OF CITY [5. RECOGNITION OF CITY EMPLOYEES AND OUTSTANDING CITIZENS] [6. RECOGNITION OF PERSONS WHO WISH TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL] EMPLOYEES, EVERY ONE OF THEM. PERSONS WHO WISH TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL WE HAVE TWO BLUE CARDS THIS EVENING, BOTH ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE RULES MR. JACK FEL FELLMAN,. >> HELLO COUNCIL, I WANTED TO SPEAK ABOUT THE MICROMOBILITY ORDINANCE BEFORE YOU DISCUSSING LAND USE AND YOU MIGHT VOTE ON IT NEXT MEETING BUT I WANTED TO EXPRESS SOME OF MY THOUGHTS ON THE MICROMOBILITY ORDINANCE. IT'S GOING WELL SO FAR BUT I STILL FEEL LIKE THERE'S A LOT OF ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT. FOR EXAMPLE WE COULD LOOK AT CITIES THAT HAVE THAT MICROMOBILITY ORDINANCES BEFORE OUR CITY HAD SPRINGFIELD, MISSOURI, THEY HAVE A PRETTY ROBUST SYSTEM IN PLACE THAT IS GOING QUITE WELL FOR THEM AND THEY HAVE MINIMAL PROBLEMS WITH THINGS LIKE EMOTE DEVICES BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD A STRUCTURAL ENFORCEMENT SYSTEM IN PLACE AND THEY HAVE WELL KNOWN LAWS FOR THE PUBLIC. I THINK THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL FOR OUR CITY. IN ADDITION I'M STILL TROUBLED BY THE PRESENCE OF THE ZONING AND THE ORDINANCE BECAUSE THERE WAS STILL THE SECTION OF THE KING CITY CENTER DRIVE AND JUST NORTH OF MAGNIFICENT NEW PLAY STRUCTURE WHICH LOOKS AMAZING AND I WISH I COULD FIT IN IT. I'M TROUBLED BY THE PRESENCE OF THAT STILL IN THE ORDINANCE AND ECHOING WHAT FORMER COUNSELOR SAID THERE ARE STILL MANY THINGS, I WANT TO START FROM SCRATCH, WRITE DOWN ALL OF THE ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO GET DONE AND WORK FROM THERE. I UNDERSTAND THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE, I JUST ASK THE COUNCIL AND ITS COMMITTEES TO CONSIDER SUCCESS STORIES AND CONSIDER DATA AND ACADEMIC STUDIES THAT WOULD HELP BETTER OUR CITY. >> THANK YOU JACK. >> NOT TALKING ABOUT FLOODING. MY NAME IS ALI MISCHLER AND AFTER WATCHING THE BUDGET MEETINGS LAST WEEK I HAVE A COUPLE OF CONCERNS ABOUT CARMEL'S NEW PARKING ENFORCEMENT SYSTEM. SPECIFICALLY CLARITY, IMPLEMENTATION AND SUPPORTING PRIVACY. WHERE CAN RESIDENTS BUY AN EFFICIENT MAP OR THE ORDINANCE SCHEDULE TO SEE EVERY BLOCK AND STREET THAT LEGALLY DEFINES THESE DESIGNATED SCHOOL ZONES? I ALSO CANNOT DETERMINE WHEN THOSE RESTRICTIONS APPLY, WILL PARKING BE ENFORCED EVERY DAY, ALL DAY, ONLY ON SCHOOL DAYS, SCHOOL HOURS, WHAT ABOUT EVENINGS, WEEKENDS, HOLIDAYS AND SUMMER BREAKS WOW I TRIED TO GET ANSWERS, I CALLED THE CITY AND WAS DIRECTED TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THEN I CALLED THEM I WAS REFERRED BACK TO THE CITY AND THAT ILLUSTRATES A PROBLEM IF WE CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIND THESE ANSWERS WE PROBABLY AREN'T READY FOR ENFORCEMENT YET. THE SAME QUESTION APPLIES TO GUEST PARKING UNDER THE OLD SYSTEM WE HAD TEMPORARY GUEST HANGTAGS AND NOW WE ARE APPARENTLY EXPECTED TO REGISTER GUESTS THROUGH PASSPORT. WHEN DOES THE GUEST NEED A PERMIT WOW DO I NEED THEIR LICENSE PLATE BEFORE THEY ARRIVE, WHAT IF SOMEONE ARRIVES FOR DINNER AT 7:00 P.M., WHAT IF [00:05:03] IT'S A SATURDAY, WHAT IF I HAVE A PARTY, A CONTRACTOR, OR AN UNEXPECTED OVERNIGHT GUEST? I REALLY BELIEVE THESE PROCEDURES NEED TO BE CLEARLY PUBLISHED BEFORE CITATIONS CAN BEGIN BUT MY GREATEST CONCERN IS PRIVACY. PREVIOUSLY I WENT TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, PROVED WHERE I LIVED, SHOWED MY REGISTRATION, MY LICENSE AND I GOT A STICKER. NOW I MUST CREATE AN ACCOUNT WITH A PRIVATE COMPANY PASSPORT, UPLOAD MY VEHICLE REGISTRATION, AND MY LICENSE AND THEN MY LICENSE PLATE BECOMES MY RESIDENTIAL STICKER. I UNDERSTAND THAT AMEX CONTRACT INCLUDES IMPORTANT PROTECTIONS REGARDING CITY CONTROLLED DATA BUT IT MAKES AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION, 1A PASSPORT PROCESSES MUNICIPAL DATA FOR A CITY, THE CITY IS THE CONTROLLER AND PASSPORT IS THE PROCESS BUT PASSPORT SAYS THAT WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL CREATES OR USES A PASSPORT ACCOUNT DIRECTLY, PASSPORT BECOMES THE BUSINESS FOR CONTROLLER. IN THE U.S. PRIVACY NOTICE IT ALSO ACKNOWLEDGES CERTAIN DISCLOSURES TO ANALYTICS AND ADVERTISING PROVIDERS THAT MAY LEGALLY CONSTITUTE A SALE OR SHARING OF MY PERSONAL DATA. SO MY QUESTIONS ARE, WHAT RULES APPLIES TO ME? I AM NOT VOLUNTARILY CHOOSING PASSPORT, I HAVE TO HAVE PASSPORT TO CREATE -- TO GET MY STICKER. DOES CARMEL'S CONTRACT PROTECT EVERYTHING THE PASSPORT ATTAINED THROUGH THAT PASSPORT ACCOUNT AND IF IT DOESN'T HOW DOES THE CITY CORRECT THAT WOW BEFORE ENFORCEMENT BEGINS I'M ASKING THE COUNCIL TO PROVIDE THREE THINGS, A MAP AND THE HOURS FOR EVERY DESIGNATED SCHOOL ZONE, CLEAR GUEST PARKING RULES AND ENFORCEMENT HOURS AND AN ASSURANCE THAT CREATING A MANDATORY PASSPORT ACCOUNT GIVES PASSPORT NO ADDITIONAL RIGHTS TO RESIDENTS PERSONAL INFORMATION BEYOND ADMINISTERING CARMEL'S PARKING PROGRAM. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. [7. COUNCIL AND MAYORAL COMMENTS/OBSERVATIONS] , OBSERVATIONS? >> GOOD EVENING CITY COUNCILOR AYERS, MY NAME IS GRACE MILLER I'M A FIFTH GRADER AT THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND I WILL SHARE TONIGHT DEPUTY MAYOR REPORT. WE HAVE HAD A VERY EXCITING START TO THE FALL SEASON IN CARMEL SO FAR, THERE IS MORE TO COME. LAST WEEKEND THE CARMEL INTERNATIONAL ARTS FESTIVAL TOOK PLACE IN THE ARTS OF DESIGN DISTRICT, THERE WERE MORE THAN 130 ARTISTS THROUGH THE UNITED STATES AND THE WORLD, THERE WERE MONEY AND RAISING PAINTINGS, SCULPTURES, PHOTOS AND OTHER WORKS OF ART. CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL OF THE ARTISTS WHO TOOK PART IN THIS GREAT EVENT. WE ALSO HAD OUR NEIGHBORHOOD POP UP OF THE SEASON LAST MONDAY AT SOPHIA SQUARE. THIS ONE WAS EXTRA SPECIAL BECAUSE WE CELEBRATED CARMEL'S 150TH ANNIVERSARY IN SOPHIA SQUARE 15TH BIRTHDAY. THANK YOU TO OUR FRIENDS AT KEYSTONE GROUP FOR HOSTING AND TO OUR CITY COUNCILORS FOR JOINING US. WE HOPE THAT EVERYONE HAD A WONDERFUL HOMECOMING WEEKEND, THE CITY OF CARMEL WAS PROUD TO HELP PROMOTE HIGH SCHOOL PLAN A SPECIAL PEP RALLY LAST THURSDAY. STUDENTS, FAMILIES, ALUMNI AND RESIDENTS ALL CAME TOGETHER AND CELEBRATED. THANK YOU TO ALL THE STUDENTS WHO PRACTICE AND WORK HARD TO MAKE SUCH THE EVENT A GREAT EXAMPLE OF SCHOOL AND COMMUNITY SPIRIT. ON FRIDAY, WE WELCOMED THE START OF FALL AT CARMEL'S ANNUAL OCTOBERFEST AT CARMEL CITY CENTER. WE APPRECIATE ALL THE BUSINESS OWNERS WHO STAYED OPEN LATE TO HELP MAKE THE EVENT FUN FOR EVERYONE. AND FINALLY THIS SATURDAY OCTOBER TENTH FROM 430 TO 930, PLEASE JOIN US FOR CARMEL'S ANNUAL DIWALI CELEBRATION AT CARTER GREEN. BRING YOUR FAMILY, FRIENDS, AND NEIGHBORS TO ENJOY FOOD, MUSIC, ACTIVITIES THAT HELP EVERYONE LEARN ABOUT DIWALI. BE SURE TO STAY THERE FOR THE AMAZING FIREWORKS FINALE. THANK YOU TO DR. JOSE AND THE ENTIRE COMMITTEE FOR ALL THEIR HARD WORK ON THIS WONDERFUL EVENT. >> GREAT JOB, THANK YOU VERY MUCH THAT WAS A LONG ONE YOU DID GOOD. >> THAT WAS GREAT. COUNCIL COMMENTS? >> YES, TWO THINGS FIRST OF ALL THANK YOU MAYOR AND I WOULD LOVE TO SEE EVERYONE AT DIWALI THERE WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOU ON SATURDAY. THE SECOND IS ADDRESSING JACK I THINK HE WILL BE VERY HAPPY TO NOTE WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME TO DISCUSS THIS BECAUSE WE ARE RESCHEDULING OUR LAND USE COMMITTEE ON THURSDAY OF THIS WEEK DUE TO THE UNAVAILABILITY OF TWO OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS [00:10:03] COUNCILOR GREEN AND COUNCILOR AYERS HAD OTHER ISSUES THAT CAME UP SO WE WILL HAVE TO MOVE THAT MEETING TO THE FOLLOWING WEEK SO WE WILL HAVE MORE TIME TO DISCUSS THESE ISSUES AND CONTEMPLATE THEM SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. >> CAN YOU SAY THAT DATE SO I KNOW THERE ARE SOME FOLKS WOW. >> THURSDAY OCTOBER 15TH AT 6:3. >> FIRST OFF GREAT EVENTS, WENT TO THE PEP RALLY AND IT WAS AWESOME, WE HAD A FUN TIME OCTOBERFEST WAS FANTASTIC. WE HAVE BEEN BLESSED WITH GOOD WEATHER AND SOME GREAT EVENTS GOING ON LATELY. I WANTED TO MENTION FOR ANYBODY WATCHING THAT THEY ARE HAVING HAMILTON COUNTY ONE STOP SHOPS FOR ANYONE STILL DEALING WITH THE AFTER EFFECTS OF FLOODING, ESPECIALLY NORTHWOOD HILLS AREAS WHERE IT WAS HIT VERY HARD. THIS IS AT THE HAMILTON COUNTY FAIRGROUNDS AND THE BICENTENNIAL BUILDING, THIS THURSDAY FROM 9:00 A.M. TO 6:00 P.M., FRIDAY, THIS FRIDAY 9:00 A.M. TO 6:00 P.M. AND SATURDAY AT 9:00 A.M. TO 4:00 P.M., THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE AN ACTUAL PERSON WALK YOU THROUGH ANYTHING GOING ON WITH YOUR APPLICATION, IT ALSO HELPS WITH OTHER RESOURCES AND INSTEAD OF HAVING TO CALL A BUNCH OF NUMBERS THIS IS A PERSON RIGHT THERE WITH YOU HELPING YOU OUT. THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN TO THESE AROUND THE CITY TELL ME IT'S GREAT, SO IF YOU ARE STILL WAITING FOR ANSWERS AND NAVIGATING RESOURCES WE DO HAVE ALLEN HERE IF THERE'S ANYONE IN THE ROOM THAT IS DEALING WITH IT I'M SURE YOU COULD GRAB HIM AND HE WILL HAPPILY WORK WITH YOU. I DO WANT TO SAY ONE THING ON THE COMMENT ABOUT THE PARKING ENFORCEMENT, I DON'T BELIEVE THE COUNCIL WOULD BE THE ONES TO RELEASE THE MAPS, I THINK IT WOULD BE THE ADMINISTRATION WHO WANT THIS PROGRAM TO SUCCEED. WHICH IS ENCOURAGING I'M SURE THERE WILL BE SOME SORT OF PUSH TO CREATE PUBLIC AWARENESS OF HOW THIS WILL WORK AND ANSWER SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS. SO I LOOK FORWARD TO THAT AND THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> I GUESS I COULD HAVE DONE IN OTHER ANNOUNCEMENTS BUT MOST PEOPLE HAVE TUNED OUT BY THEN. THE MAYOR'S ADVISORY COMMISSION ON SENIOR LIVING IS HOLDING THEIR ANNUAL CONFERENCE IT'S INTERGENERATIONAL DAY FOR SENIORS CONFERENCE AT UNIVERSITY HIGH SCHOOL ON FRIDAY OCTO OCTOBER 20TH FROM NINE TO 4:00 P.M., HOPE TO SEE YOU ALL THERE. >> OKAY. FIRST OF ALL DURING THE BUDGET HEARINGS, I MADE A COMMENT THAT I HAD READ IN THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE PASSPORT THING THAT IT SAID THEY COULD SELL THE INFORMATION THE SCREENSHOTS I WAS READING WERE NOT OUR SYSTEM SO I MADE AN ERROR AND I WILL CORRECT THAT ERROR, IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE ARE STILL CONCERNS OVER IT BUT TO MISS MISSOULA'S .1 AND TWO REGARDING MAPS, TIMES AND ALL OF THAT I HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THE MAYOR ABOUT THIS AND SHE IS ALL OVER THAT. SO I LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING MAPS THAT REALLY IDENTIFY WHAT THESE RESIDENTIAL AREAS ARE, WHAT A SCHOOL ZONE IS BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND HOW SCHOOL ZONE THE TERM CAN BE CONFUSING WITH AN ACTUAL SCHOOL ZONE AS DRIVING. I CAN'T ANSWER A LOT OF THEM BUT I DO KNOW THAT THEY ARE ACTIVELY WORKING ON THAT I BELIEVE BEFORE THIS -- BEFORE ANY CITATIONS ARE RENDERED, I CAN'T SAY THAT 100% BUT I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO UNROLL THIS THING OBVIOUSLY THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME KINKS I DO THINK IT COULD BE COOL BUT I THINK IT WILL BE VERY HELPFUL STREAMLINING SOME THINGS HOWEVER ALL THOSE THINGS ABOUT SACRIFICING LIBERTY, I GET IT. THE COUNCIL IS ALSO GOING TO BE GETTING SOME OF THE DATES -- UPDATES AND TRAINING ON THAT BLOCK SYSTEM SEPARATE SYSTEM, GENERALLY ABOUT POLICE PROCESSES, THE GUARDRAILS HOW THIS COMMUNITY KEEPS DATA SAFER THAN ANYONE ELSE PROBABLY. ANYONE ELSE, SO LOOKING FORWARD TO GETTING SOME OF THAT TRAINING AND UNDERSTANDING AND I THINK THERE WILL BE A PUBLIC FACING DOCUMENT ABOUT THAT YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE ALL EDUCATED FIRST SO YOU'RE ABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. I DID WANT TO ADDRESS THOSE AND THEN THREE, ON MY SECOND THING IS DIWALI, IT'S SO MUCH FUN, IT'S GREAT SMELLS, GREAT SIDES, [00:15:02] GREAT FOOD. REALLY ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO GO IN THE LAST TWO YEARS IT'S BLOWN ME AWAY EACH TIME, IT'S REALLY A FUN EVENT SO I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO ATTEND THIS SAT SATURDAY. >> JUST TO CLARIFY THE FLOCK TRAINING, SOMETHING WE WILL ALL BE? >> EVERYBODY. IT'S LESS OF A TRAINING AND MORE HERE'S WHAT WE DO SO WE HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING. >> YES THANK YOU. >> WE DO NOT HAVE ACCESS, WILL WE EVER HAVE ACCESS TO FLOCK, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT [8. CONSENT AGENDA] THAT. ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? OKAY. MOVING ON, CONSENT AGENDA, APPROVAL OF MINUTES FROM SEPTEMBER 21ST, EXECUTIVE SESSION. AND SEPTEMBER 21ST REGULAR MEETING, MOVE FOR APPROVAL. >> SECOND. >> CLAIMS THE PAYROLL IN THE FORM OF 400 MILLION, $816.19 BONUS PAYROLL $916,000, GENERAL CLAIMS $5,349,299.50. MOVE FOR APPROVAL. >> COMMITTEE REPORTS, I'M GOING [10. COMMITTEE REPORTS] TO GIVE THE DATE FOR THE NEXT MEETING. >> I WILL BE HAPPY TO APPEAR CLAUDIUS WILL MEET ON OCTOBER 15TH AT 6:30 P.M. AT CARMEL PUBLIC LIBRARY. THURSDAY OCTOBER 15TH. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU PRESIDENT SCHNEIDER, THE FINANCE COMMITTEE MET TODAY WE HAD TWO ITEMS ON THE AGENDA ONLY ADDRESSED ONE WHICH IS ORDINANCE E-28-26, THE GOLF COURSE FEES, RATES FOR THE CALENDAR 2027, THAT ITEM WAS RETURNED BACK TO THE FULL COUNCIL WITH UNANIMOUS POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION. NEXT MEETING WILL BE ON MONDAY OCTOBER 19TH AT 3:00 P.M. [Items 11.a & 11.d] >> THANK YOU. CARMEL REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION. EVENING CITY COUNCIL, WHILE I PLUG IN, IF THE COUNCIL IS OKAY WITH IT I WILL ALSO GIVE THE AUTHORITY REPORT. >> PLEASE. >> OUR CFO ZAC JACKSON LED US THROUGH A RE FINDING -- REFUNDING AND REFINANCING THIS YEAR. THE CRA MET TO APPROVE ALL THE THINGS ZACH TOLD THEM TO APPROVE. THAT WAS IT. OKAY. THAT WAS A CRA THINGS. OKAY, REDEVELOPMENT. REALLY QUICKLY, GO THROUGH SOME OTHER ACTIVITIES FOR LAST MONTH. ANY MINUTE NOW. >> THANK YOU RACHEL, I GOT IT. REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION ACTIVITIES FOR OCTOBER, ON SQUARE NORTH CONTINUES TO RISE UP ABOVE THE CLOUDS THERE, YOU CAN SEE THE 11 BUILDING IS REALLY LOOKING GOOD, GREAT PROGRESS ON IT. MAGNOLIA IS NOW WORKING ON THE LAST TWO BUILDINGS, CROSS AND CACTUS IS THE REPUBLIC HEADQUARTERS CONTINUES BUILDING UP WITH A CAPTIVE HOTEL ON THE PARKING GARAGE, THAT'S MOVING FORWARD FAST, IF YOU HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE CITY HALL YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN HOLES IN THE GROUND OUTSIDE WHERE THE CITY OF THREE IS GOING TO GO, THAT IS MOVING FORWARD FAIRLY QUICKLY I SUSPECT, SOME PART OF THAT PROJECT GOING THROUGH A DLS APPROVALS, COMING UP SOME ICON ON MAIN CONTINUES AS BUILD OUT, WE WILL HAVE AN UPDATE FOR YOU EXACTLY WHEN THE OUTDOOR PLAZA IS GOING TO OPEN. IT'S CALLED FIGURING IT OUT, AND FINALLY IF YOU'VE PEEKED OVER THE FENCE OFF OF THIRD, THEY ARE WELL UNDERWAY ROLLING OUT THE THIRD AVENUE RESIDENCES, IT'S LOOKING REALLY GOOD AND TWO MORE PROJECTS, HEROIN CLUB CONTINUES ITS DESIGN WITH THE PARKS DEPARTMENT AND IF YOU ARE DRIVING NORTH ON U.S. 31 YOU WILL SEE LOTS OF PROGRESS ON THE [00:20:03] TARGETED PROJECT ■ATFOURTH AND PHASE TWO. AND THAT CONCLUDES A QUICK OVERVIEW OF CONSTRUCTION FROM LAST MONTH AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THE COUNCIL MIGHT HAVE. >> I HAVE A SUGGESTION, I'VE IMPLEMENTED ALL YOUR OTHER SUGGESTIONS. >> OH, YOU HAVE? >> YES. >> ICON ON MAIN, I WAS RIDING MY BIKE RECENTLY UP IN THAT AREA AND THIS IS THE PROJECT IS ALMOST DONE, ONE DISAPPOINTMENT IS SIDEWALK ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE THE LAST THING THAT EVERYONE DOES, IT CREATES GAPS IN OUR MULTI-USE PATH SYSTEM, IS THERE ANY WAY THAT WHEN YOU ARE WORKING THROUGH THESE PROJECTS WE CAN MAKE SURE TO NOT CREATE AS MANY GAPS UNTIL AFTER THE PROJECT IS FINISHED? THERE IS A BUSY STREET TO CROSS, JUST A SUGGESTION. >> ABSOLUTELY. I DO KNOW OUR ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT DOES REVIEW THE MULTIPLAN DURING CONSTRUCTION, I ALSO KNOW SPECIFICALLY IN THIS SITE OUR CITY ENGINEER HAS BEEN WORKING WITH THE DEVELOPER YOU WILL HAVE A NICE WIDE SIDEWALK AND PILLS DOWN. >> THANK YOU. >> REAL QUICK QUESTION, HAS PACINIAN THREE CLOSED ON THEIR FINANCING YET. >> THAT ONE WILL PROBABLY HAPPEN SIMILAR TO HOW THE NUMBER 1 HAPPENED, THEY WILL PRIVATELY FUND THE GARAGE AND THEN PROCEED WITH LENDERS ON THE VERTICAL ON TOP OF THE GARAGE. WE PROBABLY WON'T GET TO THOSE FOR A FEW MONTHS. >> THANK YOU. >> HENRY. >> WHAT ABOUT CLOSING? >> HERON CLUB? >> WE ARE, I WAS TEXTING WITH A DEVELOPER TODAY, THEY'RE TALKING TO EQUITY PEOPLE NOW AND WE ARE JUST WAITING FOR A DATE. FOR NOW. >> JUST WAITING ON A DATE TO CLOSE? >> DATE TO CLOSE THE, THAT IS CORRECT. WAITING FOR EQUITY TO PROVIDE A CLOSING DATE. >> WHY CAN'T YOU SET A DATE TO CLOSE. USE A LOT OF WORDS. >> I DON'T HAVE THE DATE OF CLOSING. >> BUT THAT'S ALL WE'RE WAITING FOR, THERE'S NOTHING ELSE OR ANY OTHER VARIABLES, WE'RE WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO SELECT A DATE? IS THERE SOMETHING KEEPING US FROM CLOSING? >> GENERALLY A DEVELOPER HAS TO FIND EQUITY PARTNERS SO THE DEVELOPER NEEDS TO PUT THE PROJECT TOGETHER, I KNOW THE DEVELOPERS ARE TALKING WITH VARIOUS EQUITY PARTNERS SO I SUSPECT WE'LL BE HEADING TO A CLOSING BUT I DON'T HAVE A BETTER ANSWER. >> WHAT'S HOLDING -- IT HOLDING UP ANOTHER PROJECT SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE -- WHEN PROJECTS PUSH THROUGH IT'S THE UNDERSTANDING THEY ARE FUNDED. LET'S APPROVE A PROJECT AND SEE IF THEY CAN GET MONEY. IF THEY HAVEN'T SOLD INVESTORS ON THE PROJECT, I'M JUST FRUSTRATED WITH THE TIMING ON THIS SPECIFIC ONE. >> UNDERSTOOD. >> THE MOHAWK MARKETPLACE, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE CALLING IT WOW. >> AROUND THAT RAMESES? >> YES, I DON'T HAVE IF YOU'RE ASKING FOR A START TIME ON THE MORE URBAN SECTION, I DON'T HAVE THAT EXACT TIME. >> IT SEEMED A LOT MORE EMINENT A FEW YEARS AGO BUILDINGS WERE COMING DOWN AND SEEMS TO HAVE NOT HAPPENED, WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE EXCITED WHETHER GOOD OR BAD THE BUILDING IS GOING TO BE TORN DOWN. >> ON GRAMERCY COUNSELOR I KNOW THAT THE DEVELOPER BUCKINGHAM HAS BEEN WORKING TO MOVE VARIOUS TENANTS OUT OF THAT PLAZA BUT I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT DATE ON WHEN THEY WANT TO DEMOLISH. >> AS DEVELOPER DRIVEN. >> YES COUNCILOR. >> AND THEN FAMILY -- FINALLY FOLLOWING UP WHAT ADAM SAID, IT'S ONE THING TO HAVE THESE CLIENTS BUT THEN WE DON'T IMPLEMENT THEM, LIKE A LOT OF THINGS WE HAVE THIRD AVENUE THERE THE DEVELOPMENT IS THERE, IT'S JUST AN HOUR NOW, NOW IT'S CLOSED NOT QUALIFIED FLAGGERS, AND SO A AND -- IT'S ALREADY IN OUR OVERRUN, IT'S MOST OF THE GRIEVANCES WE GET. WHEN WE LOOK AT THESE MORE TIGHT STRAINED DEVELOPMENTS WHERE WE KNOW I DO NOT SEE A SLIDE FOR IT AT THIS POINT. >> EIGHTH GRADE, I UNDERSTAND THAT THE ROAD IS GOING TO BE CLOSED BUT IT'S GOING TO BE CLOSED FOR A SEGMENT OF THE DAY IT SHOULD BE CLOSED ALL DAY. NOT YOU GET STUCK AND THEN YOU'RE WAITING FOR 5 MINUTES, WELL TRUCK IS BEING UNLOADED AND YOU CAN'T BACK UP HERE THOSE ARE THE COMPLAINTS I'M GETTING ALONG WITH PEDESTRIANS. TO YOUR POINT ABOUT ICON, THE SIDEWALK IS THE LAST THING, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE GET AROUND [00:25:03] THAT BUT A WELL DEFINED MOTI KNOW IT'S IN THE MOT BUT IF THE SIGNS ARE STARTING TO FALL OVER AND BE MISSING AND JUST WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE CLEANED UP GOOD ON THESE BIGGER PROJECTS. >> I WILL TALK TO MY COUNTERPARTS IN ENGINEERING AND ENSURE THAT HAPPENS. >> MUCH APPRECIATED. WHAT IS OUR UPDATE? >> ARDALAN, IT'S MOVING VERY FAST, I SUSPECT THEY WILL BE DONE BY THE END OF THE YEAR BUT IT MIGHT PUSH A LITTLE BIT INTO NEXT YEAR ON THE INTERIOR. >> LOOKS BEAUTIFUL, A GREAT JOB. >> THANK YOU. [11.b. Carmel Historic Preservation Commission (Quarterly – January, April, July, October)] >> ANYTHING ELSE? THANK YOU. >> CARMEL HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION. >> I SERVE STAFF FOR THE CARMEL HISTORICAL PRESERVATION COMMISSION HERE TO GIVE THE REPORT COVERING JULY 2026 THROUGH SEPTEMBER THIS YEAR. SO FIRST AND MOST RECENTLY WE HAD A COMMISSION NUMBER COMMISSION ASSISTANCE AND MENTORING PROGRAM KNOWN AS CAMP AT THE STATEWIDE HISTORIC PRESERVATION CONFERENCE LAST WEEK IT WAS OUR CHAIR EMILY WHO PARTICIPATED HURT REAL VALUABLE DAY LONG TRAINING EXPERIENCE THAT PROVIDES A LOT OF GOOD LESSONS THAT EMILY AND THE STAFF WHO ALSO ATTENDED WILL BRING BACK TO THE COMMUNITY. STAFF AND COMMISSIONERS ALSO REMAIN ENGAGED IN TRYING TO SEEK A SOLUTION FOR THE BLUE SCHOOL HISTORIC SCHOOLHOUSE BUILDING AT 106TH AND HENDERSON. THERE'S BEEN A GOOD INTERVIEW IN THE CURRENT WITH BOTH STAFF AND COMMISSION NUMBERS AND THE COMMISSION IS WORKING BOTH INTERNALLY AND WITH OTHER ARMS OF GOVERNMENT TO DISCERN A -- POTENTIAL SOLUTION. RECENTLY IN THE PAST QUARTER THE COMMISSION ALSO RECEIVED AN IN DEPTH CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT REPORT FROM THE STATE OF INDIANA INDICATING THE COMMISSION IS PLIANT, COMPLIANT WITH ITS CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS. AND JUST AS A REMINDER CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND THIS IS THE HIGHEST STATUS THAT ANY LOCAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION CAN ACHIEVE. IT'S A SIGNIFICANT SUCCESS THAT CARMEL CONTINUES TO MAINTAIN THE PRESERVATION FOR ITS STATUS COMMISSION. STAFF IS ALSO COMPLETED A WORKING DRAFT OF CONSERVATION DISTRICT GUIDELINES FOR PERSPECTIVE NORTH RANGE LINE ROAD CONSERVATION DISTRICT. I DO HAVE A COPY HERE THAT INCLUDES EVERYTHING THAT THE COMPLETE BUILDING INVENTORY WHICH DOUBLES THE THICKNESS OF THE DOCUMENT. WE'VE REALLY WORKED THROUGH THE DETAILS TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S A STRONG DRAFT GUIDELINES, THAT COMMISSION REVIEWED IT AND THEY HAD THE CHANCE TO DISCUSS THE DOCUMENT AT THEIR REGULARLY SCHEDULED SEPTEMBER MEETING AND OUR NEXT STEPS THE NEXT COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT SESSIONS SPECIFICALLY WITH PROPERTY OWNERS AND BUSINESS OWNERS IN THE PROPOSED DISTRICT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ENTER THEIR QUESTIONS, GATHER THE INPUT AND INCORPORATE FEEDBACK INTO THE DRAFT OF THE DOCUMENT. IN ADDITION STAFF AN COMMISSIONERS HAVE BEEN WORKING THROUGH THE LOGISTICS OF POTENTIALLY ALLOWING OR NOT ALLOWING COMMISSION MEMBERS TO ATTEND MEETINGS VIRTUALLY. WE'VE HAD ONE COMMISSION MEMBER WHO HAS REQUESTED THAT. AND THEN WE HAVE CONTINUED TO PARTICIPATE IN A REVIEW OF IMPROVED -- IMPROVEMENT LOCATION PERMANENT APPLICATIONS FOR HISTORIC PROPERTIES UNDER THE DEMOLITION DELAY ORDINANCE FOR THE CITY. AND FINALLY WE HAVE HAD STAFFING CHANGE AS I'M SURE YOU'VE NOTICED, AND FOR ANYONE WHO'S NOT FAMILIAR IT SERVES AS CONTRACT STAFF FOR THE CITY OF CARMEL'S HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION. SO MARK WAS A LONG TIME ADMINISTRATOR FOR THE COMMISSION AND IN THE COURSE OF THE PREVIOUS QUARTER HE IS NO LONGER WITH INDIANA LANDMARKS, SO AS THE DIRECTOR OF THE CENTRAL REGIONAL OFFICE AT INDIANA LANDMARKS I AM DE FACTO SERVING AS THE COMMISSION ADMINISTRATOR, WE STILL HAVE ALEX BROOKS TO DEAL FORMALLY WITH THE NAMING OF [00:30:06] A NEW ADMINISTRATOR LATER THIS EVENING. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO TAKE THEM. >> THANK YOU. STILL, HAVING EARLY TALKS WITH MRK ABOUT THE NORTH RANGELAND PRESERVATION AREA, CAN YOU ENSURE THE -- THE COUNCIL GETS INVITED TO THOSE MEETINGS. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> WE HAVE TO WORRY IF WE HAVE A QUORUM THAT WE WOULD NEED TO MAKE SURE WE CAN FOLLOW THE LOFT IF YOU HAVE ANY COUNCIL MEMBERS ENDED UP ATTENDING. I TAKE SPECIFIC INTEREST IN THAT. I WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND ANY OF THOSE. >> ABSOLUTELY, THANK YOU, BE MINDFUL OF THE QUORUM AND APPRECIATE YOUR INTEREST. >> MR. PRESIDENT, WHEN WILL YOU BE SHARING THAT DRAFT REPORT OF THE NORTH RANGE LINE ROAD? >> AS FAR AS HAVING ENGAGEMENT SESSIONS, WE HAVE NOT SET THE DATES FOR THOSE YET, WE'RE HOPING TO HAVE TWO SESSIONS FOR THE YEAR. >> LET ME ASK MY QUESTION. >> IS IT POSSIBLE TO ASK COUNCIL FOR THE COPY OF THE DRAFT REPORT? >> I CAN SEND THAT TO MORROW. >> THANK YOU. >> WHAT IS A CONSERVANCY DISTRICT VERSUS A MORE STRICT DISTRICT? >> THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION, CONSERVATION DISTRICT REALLY IS AIMED AT LIMITING DEMOLITION OF STRUCTURES THAT CONTRIBUTE TO THE HISTORIC CONNECTIVITY OF A HISTORICAL DISTRICT. DOES NOT REALLY REGULATION OF ALTERATIONS TO HISTORIC STRUCTURES, THERE IS ANOTHER LAYER OF DESIGN CONSTRUCTIONS TO MAKE SURE ANY DEVELOPMENT ON VACANT LOTS OR ON SITES WHERE PREVIOUS BUILDINGS HAVE BEEN DEMOLISHED IS STILL GOING TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE CHARACTER OF THAT DISTRICT, BUT IF A FULL HISTORIC DISTRICT WOULD INVOLVE MORE STRINGENT REVIEW OF ALTERATIONS TO HISTORIC PROPERTIES. I WILL TALK TO YOU MORE, I JUST WANT TO READ THE REPORT. I MET WITH THE DIRECTOR FOR A LONG TIME TALKING ABOUT THIS AREA, A COUPLE OF THINGS IN GENERAL AND HAVE SOME VACANT LOTS THAT HAVE SAT VACANT. THE ONE THING, I DON'T WANT TO COMMENT WITHOUT READING IT BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER WE PUT IN PLACE IS NOT MAKING IT EVEN MORE DIFFICULT TO SEE THINGS GET BUILT THAT WE WANT TO SEE BUILT. THINGS THAT WOULD FIT WITHIN THE CHARACTER BECAUSE WE'VE HAD SOME VACANT LOTS THAT JUST SIT THERE. WE DON'T WANT A SEVEN-STORY BUILDING BUT WE ALSO NECESSARILY DON'T WANT TO SEE AN EMPTY LOT. I WILL WAIT TILL I READ YOUR REPORT BUT I LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING TO YOU ABOUT THAT. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR FEEDBACK. WE ARE REALLY TRYING TO HARD TO COORDINATE WITH EXISTING CHARACTER OVERLAYS UNDER THE CURRENT ZONING ORDINANCE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE NOT ADDING ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE TOO ONEROUS OR DISCOURAGED IF ELEMENT ON THOSE VACANT LOTS. I THINK IF ANYTHING IT'S MORE ABOUT CLARIFYING WHAT IT IS THAT WOULD MAKE FOR A COMPETITIVE NEW CONSTRUCTION. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU. [12.d. Second Reading of Ordinance D-2847-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Approving and Adopting Brookshire Golf Course Fee Schedule and Rate Structure for Calendar Year 2027; Sponsors: Councilors Aasen, Minnaar, Taylor, and Worrell. Sent to the Finance, Utilities and Rules Committee. (Meeting date 10/05/26)] >> ON TO BUSINESS, A, B, C AND D, SECOND READING OF ORDINANCE D2H47, THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVING AND ADOPTING THE GOLF COURSE, THE RATE SCHEDULE FOR ACCOUNTING YEAR 2027. COUNCILOR TAYLOR THIS CAME OUT OF YOUR COMMITTEE. >> YES, WE HAD A PRESENTATION TODAY, SUPERINTENDENT AND JACKSON TO GO OVER THESE INCREASES, THEY'RE VERY NOMINAL. SOME ARE LESS THAN 2%, OVER HALF OF THEM ARE NOT CHANGING. WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION, WANT TO APPLAUD THE GOLF COURSE ON RECEIVING 100% OR EXPECTED TO RECEIVE 100% COST RECOVERY MEANING OPERATIONAL AND COVERS THEIR OPERATIONAL EXPENSES. IS THE FIRST TIME THAT WE'VE SEEN THAT AT THE GOLF COURSE. AFTER FURTHER DISCUSSION AND VERY NOMINAL CHANGES IN THE FEE STRUCTURE AND WITH THE SUCCESS THAT THEY'RE HAVING THIS YEAR THE COMMITTEE PASSES UNANIMOUSLY TO RETURN THE POSITIVE [00:35:01] RECOMMENDATION OF FULL COUNCIL. >> THIS IS COMING BACK UNANIMOUSLY FROM FINANCE ADVISOR RECOMMENDATION. IT IS ABLE TO BE VOTED ON TONIGHT, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? HEARING NONE DO WE HAVE A MOTION? >> MOVE FOR APPROVAL. [13.a. First Reading of Ordinance D-2848-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Establishing the Appropriations for the 2027 Budget; Sponsors: Councilors Snyder and Taylor.] >> PUBLIC HEARINGS. FIRST READING OF ORDINANCE D-2848-26, AN ORDINANCE OF THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA, ESTABLISHING THE APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE 2027 BUDGET SPONSORS SNYDER AND TAYLOR. >> OKAY, SECOND. >> THIS IS OUR BUDGET, THIS WILL BE HELD, I WON'T GO TO A COMMITTEE. WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE BUDGET HEARINGS, WE WILL HAVE ANOTHER MEETING TO DISCUSS THINGS BUT THIS IS GOING TO FORMALLY INTRODUCE WE'RE GOING TO OPEN UP THE HEARING AT 6:38. SEEING NO ONE QUESTION TO THE PODIUM WE WILL CLOSE THE HEARING AT 6:39. AS I SAID, DOES ANYONE HAVE A [13.b. First Reading of Ordinance D-2853-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Authorizing and Approving an Additional Appropriation of Funds from the General Fund (Fund #101) to the Human Resources Department 2026 Budget; Sponsor: Councilor Taylor.] CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS? MOVING ON. FIRST READING OF ORDINANCE D-2853-26, AN ORDINANCE OF THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA, AUTHORIZING AND APPROVING AN ADDITIONAL APPROPRIATION OF FUNDS FROM THE GENERAL FUND (FUND #101) TO THE HUMAN RESOURCES DEPARTMENT 2026 BUDGET SPONSORS COUNSELOR TAYLOR. >> MOVED TO INTRODUCE. >> ORDINANCE APPROPRIATES 416 COVER THE COST AND HUMAN RESOURCES DEPARTMENT 2026 BUDGET, CFO ZAC JACKSON HAD PROMISED THAT WHEN THERE WAS MINE ITEMS OR FUNDS THERE MAY APPEAR TO HAVE A NEGATIVE BALANCE BY THE END OF THE YEAR HE WOULD BRING THOSE TO US EARLIER THAN WAITING TILL THE LAST MEETING OF THE YEAR TO DO LINE ITEM TRANSFERS. >> WE WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THIS AT 6:39. AND WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING UNLESS YOU ARE WANTING TO TALK. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ONE MAC MOVING ON, FIRST READING OF ORDINANCE -- >> DO YOU WANT TO SEE. >> MOVE TO SUSPEND THE RULES AND ENTER THIS INTO ACTION THIS EVENING. >> DISCUSSION? >> CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT WE ARE DOING SINCE WE'RE MOVING IT TONIGHT? >> THANK YOU. THE 416,000 FOR HUMAN RESOURCES 336,000 OF THAT IS THE ANTICIPATED SHORTFALL IN OUR WORKERS COMP FUND THIS YEAR, ESSENTIALLY WE ARE NOT SEEING NEW INCREASE IN CLAIMS BUT WE ARE SEEING AN INCREASE IN THE COST OF CLAIMS AND SO WE NEED MORE FUNDING THERE. THE REMAINING 80,000 BUILDS A FEW OTHER GAPS AT HR. ESSENTIALLY WE HAVE AN ADDITIONAL PART TIME PERSON THIS YEAR AND BECAUSE OF SOME FLUCTUATIONS MID-YEAR IN TERMS OF A FULL TIME PERSON LEFT, WE HAVE TEMPORARILY TWO PEOPLE FILLING ONE SPOT WHERE 80,000 SHORT TOTAL BETWEEN FULL TIME, PART TIME AND HEALTH INSURANCE. THE BULK OF IT IS FOR WORKERS COMP. >> TO CLARIFY THERE WAS AN ADDITIONAL FULL TIME END OF PART TIME? HOW DOES THAT? >> I THINK THERE WAS A. OF TIME WHERE WE HAD A DOUBLE FULL AND A FULL TIME BUT WE DO HAVE ONE MORE PART TIME PERSON THERE THAT WAS CONTEMPLATED LAST YEAR. >> 80,000 OVER BUDGET REALLY. NOTWITHSTANDING THE BULK OF IT BEING ON THE WORKERS COMP CLAIM. >> ON TRACK TO BE. [00:40:03] >> ONE MORE TO THAT, AS WE GET THE DEEPER DIVE INTO THE BUDGET FOR NEXT YEAR ARE YOU CONTEMPLATING AN INCREASE IN WORKERS COMP LINE? >> YES, IT'S BEEN TRUE BASED UPON. >> WE HAVE ENABLED US TO BE ACTIVE UPON THIS EVENING. SHOULD SOMEONE MOVE. >> MOVE TO APPROVAL. >> SECOND. >> BEFORE I MOVE ON TO LINE ITEM NUMBER C I MEANT TO SAY THIS, WE'VE HAD A BUDGET HEARING, WE'VE HAD -- THERE WERE NO QUESTIONS FOR THE JUDGE OR THE CLERK AND SINCE THEY ARE RATHER INDEPENDENT OF THE CITY'S BUDGET BUT STILL FALL UNDER REVIEW OF OUR BUDGET I DON'T WANT THEM TO BE DRAGGED TO EVERY MEETING WE HAVE BUT IF THERE ARE GLARING QUESTIONS FOR THE CLERK'S OFFICE OR THE JUDGE'S OFFICE, IF WE COULD GET THOSE QUESTIONS TO THEM INDIVIDUALLY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO SIT AND WAIT WONDERING IF HE WILL ASK A QUESTION, WE DO [13.c. First Reading of Ordinance D-2854-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Authorizing and Approving an Additional Appropriation of Funds from the General Fund (Fund #101) to the Carmel Fire Department 2026 Budget (#1120); Sponsor: Councilor Taylor.] APPRECIATE Y'ALL BEING HERE AND ALWAYS HAPPY TO SEE YOUR FACES. >> NUMBER C, FIRST READING OF D-2854-26, AN ORDINANCE OF THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA, AUTHORIZING AND APPROVING AN ADDITIONAL APPROPRIATION OF FUNDS FROM THE GENERAL FUND (FUND #101) TO THE CARMEL FIRE DEPARTMENT 2026 BUDGET (#1120) COUNSELOR TAYLOR. >> MOVED TO INTRODUCE. >> I'M GOING TO READ THE SYNOPSIS. >> ORDINANCE APPROPRIATES $1,950,000 TO COVER THE COST IN THE CARMEL FIRE DEPARTMENT 2026 BUDGET. SPECIFICALLY 1.6 MILLION TO A LINE ITEM UNSCHEDULED OVERTIME AND LINE ITEM FOR BUILDING REPAIRS AND MAINTENANCE OF 350,000. >> HEARING THAT WE WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 6:44. SEEING NO ONE APPROACHING THE PODIUM WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 644 AND SOME CHANGE. THIS HAS BEEN INTRODUCED, WOULD YOU LIKE FURTHER INSTRUCTION? WOULD YOU LIKE TO WORK ON IT FURTHER TONIGHT. CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE $350,000 FOR THE BUILDING AND MAINTENANCE FEES, THE DEFINITION OF IT ANYWAY. >> GOOD EVENING, FIRE CHIEF CARMEL FIRE DEPARTMENT, $350,000 FOR TWO PROJECTS, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG THERE. STATION 44, HVHC, THE STATION WAS BUILT IN 2016, AND REALLY SINCE 2018, WE'VE HAD HEATING AND COOLING ISSUES, REALLY BEEN CHASING THAT PROBLEM AND TO THE POINT WHERE WE'VE HAD MINOR FIXES, WE'VE SPENT SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS WITH SOME REPAIRS BUT AFTER FURTHER REVIEW AND GUIDANCE FROM SOME THIRD PARTIES I SUGGESTED TO REPLACE THAT SYSTEM. AT THE COST OF A MILLION DOLLARS. AND SO USING SOME OTHER 350,000 TO COVER THE HVHCS STATION 44 AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE HVHC REPAIRS AT STATION 43 AND WE ARE STILL WORKING ON THE THIRD PARTY ON SOME BITS FROM THAT BUT WE ARE LOOKING AT $55,000 FOR A COST TO DO SOME REPAIRS THERE. THAT IS WHAT THE 350,000 IS FOR. >> ON THAT 1.6 FOR OVERTIME, THAT'S A BIG NUMBER. WE KNOW FIREFIGHTERS GET OVERTIME, IS ANY OF THIS RECOVERABLE FROM DISASTER EFFORTS? >> NO, AND 1.5 IS SOME RECOVERED FUNDS FROM LAST YEAR'S BUDGET GO AHEAD TO. >> IF I REMEMBER WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THE BUDGET LAST YEAR, THE TOTAL SPENDING ON OVERTIME LAST YEAR FOR FIRE INCLUDING BOTH PLANNED AND UNPLANNED OR SCHEDULED AND UNSCHEDULED I THINK WAS APPROACHING 5 MILLION AND FOR THE BUDGET THIS YEAR WE [00:45:02] HAD INVESTED SIGNIFICANT MORE DOLLARS INTO STAFFING UP THE DEPARTMENT. WE HELD 1.5 MILLION ON PO AS AN INSURANCE POLICY IN CASE WE DID NOT BUDGET ENOUGH FOR OVERTIME THIS YEAR AND IN TOTAL WE WERE ON TRACK TO OVERSPEND WHAT WAS BUDGETED BY 1.6 MILLION AND SO WHAT WE ARE DOING IS MAKING THAT 1.5 MILLION THAT -- MILLION THAT WAS ON P OH,, IT'S A MECHANISM TO HOLD THE DOLLARS THERE WE CAN CLOSE THE P OH,, THEY'RE SITTING IN THE GENERAL FUND TO BE REAPPROPRIATED AND THEN ALSO WE NEED ANOTHER 100,000 ON TOP OF THAT FOR THE ACTUAL ESTIMATED SPEND ON UNPLANNED OVERTIME THIS YEAR. >> SAY THAT DIFFERENTLY, 1.6 BILLION FOR OVERTIME, 1.5 OF THAT WE ALREADY HAVE DOLLARS AVAILABLE FOR, IMPACT TO GENERAL FUND BALANCE BY THE 100,000 IS NEW MONEY TO THIS. >> DID YOU SAY $5 MILLION IN OVERTIME? PLANNED. BOTH OKAY. >> THACKER OF, WE ARE MAKING STRIDES IN REDUCING OUR OVERTIME SPEND BUT IT HAS NOT GONE AWAY. ON PLANES YES SORRY. >> THANK YOU. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS OFTEN, IT'S A SCENARIO WHERE, DO WE HIRE A LOT MORE FIREFIGHTERS AND THE COST OF THAT VERSUS COMPLETELY REDUCING IT OVER TIME OR HAVING OVERTIME FOR THE FIREFIGHTERS THAT WANT TO WORK THE EXTRA OVERTIME, THERE'S ALWAYS THAT BALANCE ON THE COST VERSUS HIRING HAVING FULL TIME, THERE BENEFITS, ET-CETERA VERSUS FIREFIGHTERS THAT ARE WORKING OVERTIME, SO WE'RE GETTING CLOSER BASED ON THE NEW SCHEDULE, ON THE HIRES THAT WE HAVE TO CONTINUALLY REDUCE THIS NUMBER IS WHAT I'M HEARING. >> IF I CAN CLARIFY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PLANNED AND THE UNPLANNED OVERTIME. IN REGARDS TO THE PLANNED AND SHE IF YOU ARE PROBABLY THE BETTER ONE, YOU WANT TO TAKE THIS? >> WE HAVE SCHEDULED AND UNSCHEDULED OVERTIME, BECAUSE OF FIREFIGHTER WORK SCHEDULE IS 56 HOURS, THERE IS A FEDERAL PAYROLL EXEMPTION THAT FIREFIGHTERS ARE GOING TO RECEIVE SOME OVERTIME DEPENDING ON THEIR REGULAR SCHEDULE AS IS. SO THAT WE CAN CALCULATE AND WE KNOW EXACTLY BASED ON THE HOURS WORKED THROUGHOUT THE YEAR HOW MUCH THAT WILL BE. >> I CAN CLARIFY THAT THAT'S WITHOUT PICKING UP ANY EXTRA SHIFTS CHARACTERS WORKING THE NORMAL SHIFTS, THERE IS PLANNED OVERTIME. >> UNSCHEDULED IS COVERING FOR VACATION TIME, SICK, LONG TERM, AND THAT IS WHAT IS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR. ON TOP OF THAT, SO FAR IN 2026 WE'VE HAD 17 RETIREMENTS AND IN MY BUDGET PRESENTATION WHEN I'M BELABORING THIS I'M HAPPY TO GO INTO AS DEPTH AS YOU WANT, THE CHALLENGE COUNCILOR TAYLOR IS BALANCING THE RETIREMENTS AND TAKES TO STAFF OUR FIRE THAT IT- DEPARTMENT EVERY DAY. THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS THE STAFFING OF ANY FIRE DEPARTMENT IN THE STATE AND IN THE COUNTRY. AND SO WHEN WE HAVE SERIOUS EMERGENCIES, ACCIDENTS LIKE WE HAD THIS MORNING ON U.S. 31, ROLLOVER WE HAVE RESIDENTIAL FIRES, WE'RE THROWING 50 PERSONNEL AT THESE INCIDENTS AND WE QUICKLY MITIGATE THOSE. WITH THE NUMBER OF PERSONNEL THAT WE HAVE. THIS BALANCE OF HOW MANY DO WE NEED TO HIRE, AND REALLY FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE RIGHT NOW LOOKING AT 2027I HAVE NINE INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE TOLD ME THEY ARE GOING TO RETIRE. SOME OTHERS COULD COME IN TOMORROW AND SAY YOU KNOW WHAT, I'VE TALKED WITH MY FINANCIAL ADVISOR AND TODAY IS MY LAST D DAY. I'M PUTTING IN MY TWO WEEKS, IT'S REALLY THIS BALANCE. WE ARE AVERAGING SIX TO SEVEN OFF VACATION A DAY AND FOUR OR FIVE TO MEDICAL LEAVE. WE HAVE TO TAKE IN THAT CONSIDERATION, OUR MINIMUM STAFFING, FOUR ON AN ENGINE FIVE ON A LADDER, I WOULD SUGGEST WE NEVER LOOK AT CHANGING THAT [00:50:03] BECAUSE THAT IS WHY WE RECENTLY HAD A LARGE RESIDENCE WITH ARRIVALS THROUGH THE ROOF. FOR OUR MEN AND WOMEN TO GET UP INTO THE ATTIC AND QUICKLY CHANGE THE FIRE EXTINGUISHER BEFORE IT SPREADS, IT'S A TESTAMENT TO OUR STAFF. WITHIN MINUTES THEY'RE ON THE SCENE MITIGATING THESE INCIDENTS. AND SO I THINK IT'S THIS BALANCE OF YES, WE WANT TO REDUCE THAT OVERTIME COST ABSOLUTELY. IT IS OUR CONSTANT DISCUSSION OF THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WE CAN HIRE AND AFFORD AND BALANCE THAT. AND AT SOME POINT IT'S CHEAPER TO HAVE OVERTIME BUT WE NEED TO LOOK AT OUR RATES OF PAY AND AT SOME POINT IT TIPS THE OTHER WAY THAT WE NEED TO HIRE MORE FOLKS UP FRONT. >> I DON'T THINK ME PERSONALLY, THE AMOUNT OF MONEY IT TAKES FOR PUBLIC SAFETY PROFESSIONALS IS THE AMOUNT OF MONEY IT TAKES. WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS IF YOU TAKE THE NUMBER SWORN IT'S ABOUT 30 GRAND PER PERSON PER YEAR. I KNOW IT DOESN'T SHAKE OUT THAT WAY BUT IF YOU WERE TO AVERAGE IT OUT, IS THERE A WAY TO JUST BUDGET IT THAT WAY AND I NOTE YOU'RE PLAYING CATCH UP A LITTLE BIT BUT SO WE'RE NOT HAVING TO TRANSFER AT ONE SIX CENTS, THAT'S FRONT LOADED IS THAT ALREADY INCLUDED? >> WE BUDGETED FOR THAT, IN TERMS OF WHAT THE OVERTIME SPEND WILL BE. >> INDEPENDENTLY WILL THERE BE OPPORTUNITY FOR RECOVERY FOR SOME OF THIS BASED ON DISASTER RELIEF END. >> NOT FROM THE CURRENT ONES, WE STAFF VERY WELL, WE DID HAVE A FEW FOLKS ELIGIBLE FOR OVERTIME SO ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF WERE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THE HOURS WE WORKED IN THE EOC AND BEYOND WERE NOT ELIGIBLE TO RECOVER THAT. LOOKING AT THOSE FOLKS THAT ARE ELIGIBLE WE DO HAVE A FEW, NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY SIGNIFICANT DENT IN THE OVERTIME ISSUE HERE. WE ARE CAPTURING THOSE, WORKING WITH ZACH AND KIERSTEN TO ENSURE THAT ANYTHING THAT IS RECOVERABLE IS IDENTIFIED AND WORKING THERAPEUTIC. >> TO INCLUDE CAPITAL INFRASTRUCTURE CHARACTER THINGS THAT ARE DAMAGED. >> AND WE HAVE A LIST OF THOSE ITEMS. >> OF COURSE YOU WOULD. >> A QUICK QUESTION CORRECTLY YOU MENTIONED UNSCHEDULED OVERTIME BEING PART TIME SCHEDULED, I WOULD ASSUME THAT WHEN YOU WERE AT A HIGHER FIREFIGHTERS YOU UNDERSTAND VACATION TIME THAT THEY'RE ALLOTTED AND THAT SHOULD BE PART OF SCHEDULED WOULD BE MY UNDERSTANDING. I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU COULD EXPLAIN THAT TO A LAYPERSON LIKE ME. >> FIREFIGHTERS DO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY, WE HAVE SO MANY SLOTS PER DAY. SOMETIMES AROUND HOLIDAYS, THOSE ARE TAKEN. OTHER TIMES THEY ARE NOT AND THAT OF A TIME NEEDED FOR THAT PARTICULAR DAY FLUCTUATES WHAT IS NEEDED FOR VACATION, AND WE DO CAPTURE SOME OF THAT CERTAINLY AND THEN AGAIN A LOT OF THAT IS COLLINS, LONG TERM INJURY THINGS OF THAT NATURE. I WILL ALSO SHARE THAT I'M TRYING TO REALLY IDENTIFY SOME DATA FOR YOU, WE ARE SEEING OUR YOUNGER GENERATION NOT TAKING IT -- TAKING AS MUCH OVERTIME. AS SOME OF THE OTHER FIREFIGHTERS IN PREVIOUS YEARS. THAT IS BECOMING A CHALLENGE AS WELL AS WE PUT THAT OVER TIME OUT, AND WE ARE PLANNING ON THAT. WE HAVE THE FIREFIGHTERS, IF IT'S AVAILABLE THEY WILL TAKE IT. BUT AS WE BECOME YOUNGER AND THE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IS I THINK THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS GONE THROUGH THIS TRANSITION A FEW YEARS AGO WHERE THE NUMBER OF OUR FIREFIGHTERS ARE ELIGIBLE FOR RETIREMENT ARE STARTING TO TAKE THAT OUR DEPARTMENT IS GETTING YOUNGER. WE NEED TO WATCH TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE THE PERSONNEL IN THESE SEATS EVERY DAY AND WE ARE MANAGING THAT, WE'RE WORKING WITH LABOR ON HOW DO WE NAVIGATE THIS AND A NEW ERA FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT BUT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT AS WELL. WE MAY NEED TO BE OVERSTAFFING BECAUSE THOSE INTERESTED IN OVERTIME THOSE NUMBERS ARE GOING DOWN. >> I HAVE A FEW, FIRST FOR ZACH. THE P OH,, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE AND HOW DO WE DO THAT LAST YEAR. CAN WE SEND A COPY OF THAT, CAN YOU EXPLAIN IT? >> IT WAS KIND OF A NONTRADITIONAL PO FROM THE STANDPOINT FRANKLY WE'RE TRYING [00:55:02] TO MANAGE THE EXPENSES AND TRYING TO KEEP THE OVERTIME SPEND AS LOW AS POSSIBLE REALLY TO STRETCH THOSE DOLLARS AS FAR AS WE CAN. AT THE END OF THE YEAR I THINK THEY WERE ON TRACK TO REVERT $2 MILLION AS WE ARE BUILDING THE BUDGET THIS YEAR. AND SO WE HELD 1.5 MILLION AS A PLACEHOLDER AND A WHAT IF FOR THIS YEAR. LO AND BEHOLD, WE DO NEED IT BUT THE WAY WE DID IT IT DID NOT ADVERSELY IMPACT THE FUND BECAUSE WE DON'T COUNT POS TO THE AMOUNT. >> DID WE OWE IT LAST YEAR? THE PREVIOUS YEAR? IS THIS THE FIRST YEAR WE'VE USED THIS? >> FIRST. SECOND QUESTION, THIS IS PROBABLY FOR BOTH OF YOU, THIS IS AN EMPIRICAL MATH EQUATION, AND THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF TILT BASED ON WHO AND WHAT IS TAKING OVERTIME AND GUYS THAT ARE LOWER SALARY AND GUYS THAT ARE NOT TAKING THE THIRD -- THAT WOULD BE MY THIRD QUESTION WHEN WE GET THERE. BUT THERE ISN'T A SPECIFIC NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES THAT CAN BE ON STAFF THAT ARE NOT OVERSTAFFING BASED ON THE REGULAR SCHEDULES BASED ON THE NUMBER OF SEATS WE HAVE ON OPERATIVE VEHICLES CORRECT? THERE IS A NUMBER, A MAXIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT CAN BE SERVING AS FIRE SAFETY INDIVIDUALS BASED ON THE NUMBER OF APPARATUSES WE HAVE NQ RIGHT? >> THE NUMBER OF SEATS AND EQUIPMENT. >> I BRING THAT UP BECAUSE WE HAVE HAD THIS CONVERSATION, THIS IS THE SECOND OR THIRD YEAR, IT'S ABOUT OVERTIME ITSELF. IT BECAME MODERATELY, IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEE IT IT IS IN THE SALARY, IT BECOMES A QUESTION BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT IT APPEARS A PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICERS ARE THE HIGHEST PAID WHICH THEY ARE BUT IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE TAKING ON EXTRA DUTIES TO ENSURE THAT THEY ARE FILLING THE SEATS NECESSARY FOR COVERAGE IN SITUATIONS WHERE THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE IN THE SEATS. IT COMES DOWN TO THE QUESTION OF EMPIRICAL FINANCIAL OVERSIGHT IF WE HAVE TOO MANY FIREFIGHTERS ON STAFF THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT WILL BE SITTING IN THAT FIREHOUSE THAT CAN'T GO ON A RUN BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A SEAT FOR THEM IN THE VEHICLE AND THERE BECOMES A POINT WHEN THE INCREASE IN THE AMOUNT OF THE HUMANS WE HAVE REGARDLESS OF IF WE ARE PREPARING FOR RETIREMENT OR NOT BECOMES A BAD FISCAL DECISION. AND I WONDER AS WE LOOK AT THAT THAT NUMBER HAS NEVER BEEN PRESENTED. I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT, I'M SURE I COULD FIGURE OUT IF I HAD THE SPREADSHEET I YET WHERE THINGS WERE. THERE BECOMES A QUESTION THAT I THINK WE NEED TO ANSWER AS WE TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE AND IT'S WHETHER OR NOT WE ARE OVER SATURATING OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT WITH NEW EMPLOYEES TO MINIMIZE THAT OVERTIME WHICH IN FACT IS CREATING A CULTURE WHERE PEOPLE THAT ARE WILLING TO TAKE OVERTIME ARE NO LONGER BEING COMPENSATED IN THE LIFESTYLE THAT THEY DECIDED IS WHAT THEY WANTED WHICH IS FORCING RETIREMENTS. WHICH IS CREATING A LONGER TERM ISSUE OF TURNOVER WITHIN OUR CULTURE THAT EMPIRICALLY COULD BE MET IF WE KNEW WHERE THOSE NUMBERS WERE. >> I SAY THAT LIKE I THOUGHT ABOUT IT FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS, I'VE HAD THIS CONVERSATION, WE TRIED LAST YEAR TO BUDGET MORE APPROPRIATELY BASED ON THE NEED OF THAT OVERTIME AND IT TURNS OUT THAT WE NEED TO HAVE A SECRET SQUIRREL FUND OF $1.5 MILLION. FROM THE PREVIOUS YEAR WHERE WE DID DO A BETTER JOB MORE THAN WE SHOULD HAVE APPROPRIATED, BUT I WONDER WHAT DOES THAT ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE. WHAT IS THAT NUMBER. WHAT IS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WE HAVE TO HAVE TO FILL THOSE SEATS CORRECTLY BASED ON THE REGULAR SCHEDULE AND THEN HOW DO WE WORK BACKWARDS FROM THERE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE INCENTIVIZING BEHAVIOR APPROPRIATELY AND NOT JUST TRYING TO MITIGATE THE ISSUE THAT LOOKS LIKE AN ISSUE THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE ON THE TRANSPARENCY. AND THEN THAT WAS MORE OF A STATEMENT. WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT MORE OFFLINE IF WE HAVE THE NUMBERS, WE'D LOVE TO TALK ABOUT WHENEVER. MY THIRD IS THIS PREMISE THAT YOUNG PEOPLE ARE NOT TAKING OVERTIME HOURS. AND I'VE HEARD IT A COUPLE OF TIMES AND I WONDER FROM BOTH SIDES, POLICE AND FIRE AND ELSEWHERE IF IT'S TRUE. OR IF THE MASTER OF THE HUMAN'S LIFE IS THEY ENTER A PUBLIC SERVICE FIELD, SHIFTS AS THEY GROW SO THE IDEA THAT YOU ARE COMPENSATED IN YOUR LONGER YEARS BY HAVING MORE EFFORT AND ENERGY TO PUT INTO YOUR JOB AS YOUR CHILDREN GET OLDER TO THEN PAY [01:00:01] FOR THEIR COLLEGE AND THE THINGS THAT THEY NEED SEEMS TO BE THE REGULAR COURSE OF HUMAN EXISTENCE WHERE YOUNG PEOPLE LIKE TO GO. I POINT TO MYSELF LIKE I'M STILL YOUNG, AS I SAID TO YOU IN JOB NUMBER 2 UNTIL I STOP TALKING, BUT THE IDEA THAT THAT IS EMPIRICALLY TRUE SEEMS ARBITRARY TO ME AS WELL. THAT NEW KIDS ON THE BLOCK ARE NOT TAKING OVER TIME AND THE KIDS AT THE PAST WERE BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT BE VALIDATED AND THEN REALLY THE WHOLE DISCUSSION WAS POINTED TO AND THREE HIT AHEAD AS WE WENT AND UNDERTOOK THE IDEA OF LATERAL FIRES WHERE WE ARE BRINGING PEOPLE MID-CAREER WITH OTHER TRAINING INTO ROLES WITH A HIGHER SALARY AND MAYBE MORE OF THE GUMPTION TO TAKE ON MORE TIME SPACE AND EFFORT. AND AGAIN I THINK THAT'S EMPIRICAL, I THINK WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SHOW WHAT THE IMPACT OF THAT TRANSITION OF CULTURE HAS DONE AND FROM A FINANCIAL PERSPECTIVE I THINK IT SHOULD BE VERY EASY TO PULL THOSE TWO THINGS TOGETHER, WHAT THEY'RE DOING BEFORE, OR WHAT WE'RE DOING TONIGHT FROM AN APPROPRIATION STANDPOINT AND THEN WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO DO IN THE FUTURE AS WE ADD MORE PEOPLE. WHERE THOSE LINES CROSS IS THE POINT WE NEED TO BE AT AND I CANNOT SEE THAT. I WONDER IF IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO BUILD, I WOULD LOVE TO MAYBE SEE THAT AS YOU'VE BEEN HEARING HELPING US MOVE THAT FOR A WHILE BEFORE YOU TAKE OFF WHICH GRATEFUL FOR YOUR SERVICE AND YOUR PROCESS BUT IT'S THE MASTERMIND BEHIND THIS DIRECTION WE'VE MOVED, WE WOULD LOVE TO KNOW IF WE'RE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION BEFORE WE MAKE DECISIONS ON CONJUNCTURE WITHOUT EMPIRICAL -- EMPIRICAL DATA. >> THAT'S A LOT TO UNPACK. AND SO CERTAINLY, I'M BIG INTO NUMBERS, AND LOOKING JANUARY FIRST TO APRIL SECOND OF THIS YEAR IT'S SIX DAYS ON THAT NOTE, WE ARE NOT OVERSTAFFING CURRENTLY, IF THAT HAS BEEN SHARED OR WE ARE NOWHERE CLOSE TO OVERSTAFFING. WE HAVE EMPTY SEATS AND EVEN IF WE DID HAVE EXTRA PEOPLE ON A DAY, THANK GOD FOR THAT BECAUSE WE COULD PUT IN ANOTHER AMBULANCE, WE COULD PUT IN A COUPLE OF RIGS FOR RETIREES TO PICK UP AND FIGURE OUT WHEN WE HAVE A WORKING FIRE. WE COULD ADD SOME OF THAT EXTRA STAFF THAT DAY OR 12 HOURS THEY COULD POTENTIALLY STAFF THAT BUT KNOWING THAT EVERY DAY WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SICK -- SIX, THOSE MONTHS AGO HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF OVERTIME. AND AGAIN IT'S THE BALANCE OF OUR STAFFING IS SPECIAL, WE NEED AT LEAST 48 TO FILL FIVE ON THE LADDER, TWO ON THE LADDER AND THE SAFETY EMS OFFICER. SO WE CAN CONTINUE AND I KNOW ZACH AND I HAVE DISCUSSED THAT, WE HAVE TO SIT DOWN AND CONTINUE. >> I FIND THAT BALANCE FOR THE CITY'S. >> I DO WANT TO SAY, I DID NOT MEAN THIS TO BE CONFRONTATIONAL IN ANY WAY, IT'S JUST IT'S AN EMPIRICAL FINANCIAL NUMBER, I THINK IT'S WORTHWHILE TO SEE AS WE GO UNDER THE NEXT STEP AND I APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT'S GONE INTO IT IT DOES SEEM TO BE A FEATURE OF THE SYSTEM AS OPPOSED TO A BUG IN THE SYSTEM IS MY TENURE ON IT, THE IDEA THAT THERE WILL ALWAYS BE PEOPLE WHO ARE SICK OR NEED TO TAKE A DAY CALCULATED TO COVER OVERTIME IS USED TO HELP DO THAT, MEN AND WOMEN STANDING UP FOR EACH OTHER AND TAKING ON ANOTHER SHIFT BECAUSE SOMEONE NEEDS THAT SUPPORT. I THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME FORM OF HYPERSENSITIVITY ABOUT THE TERM OVERTIME AND PART OF THAT IS THE DISCUSSION AND PEOPLE DO RESPOND AND SAY THINGS ABOUT THAT. I DO THINK IT'S WORTHWHILE TO UNDERSTAND FROM A FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE POSITION ON THIS TOPIC THAT NUMBER ON THE WEBSITE WHERE THE HUMAN DECIDED TO TAKE ON ANOTHER $80,000 WORTH OF OVERTIME WORKED ALL THOSE EXTRA HOURS AND THAT AGAIN MIGHT BE MORE OF A FEATURE THAN IT IS A BUG. THERE MAY BE WAYS TO ADDRESS IT BUT HERE WE ARE AGAIN AT THE END OF THIS YEAR AFTER AN ATTEMPT TO GATHER OVER THE LAST YEAR WHEN THEY WERE APPROPRIATING LAST YEAR'S MONEY TO THIS ISSUE AFTER WE TRIED TO FIX IT IN THE LAST YEAR'S BUDGET. SO I SAY THAT JUST OPENLY, IT'S APPROPRIATELY. >> THIS SEEMS TO COME UP EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS BECAUSE NEWSPAPER DECIDED TO WRITE A [01:05:06] STORY SAYING HERE ARE THE HIGHEST PAID PEOPLE, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE WRITING PLEASE PROVIDE CONTEXT HOW THOSE DOLLAR AMOUNTS COME TO. THE ONLY THING, I UNDERSTAND OVERTIME ACTUALLY SAVES US MONEY COMPARED TO HIRING PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THE TRAINING, THE BENEFITS ALL THAT COST, THE ONLY THING THAT I ONLY EVER ASK ABOUT IT IF PEOPLE ARE WORKING ENOUGH OVERTIME THAT IT STARTS TO AFFECT, WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE ANYONE EXHAUSTED AND THAT AFFECTS PUBLIC SAFETY, YOU GUYS HAVE STRICT RULES ABOUT THAT IN PLACE, HAVE WE EVER REACHED IT, IS THAT EVER CONCERNED THAT, HEY, WE'VE GOT PEOPLE WORKING TOO MUCH OVERTIME AND THEY ARE EXHAUSTED OR THAT IT DOESN'T REACH THAT POINT? >> I WORRY ABOUT THAT EVERY DAY, WE HAVE THOSE HIGHEST EARNERS, THOSE INDIVIDUALS WORKING IN EXTRAORDINARY AMOUNT OF TIME, 96 HOURS STRAIGHT, 96 HOURS, CERTAINLY NOT THE BEST. I WORRY ABOUT THEIR MENTAL AND PHYSICAL HEALTH, WE'RE DIGGING INTO THAT MORE THAN WE EVER HAD BEFORE WITH ADDITIONAL BLOOD TESTING, HONORING OF SLEEP WITH 90 FIREFIGHTERS PHYSIOLOGICAL IMPACT ON OURSELVES BUT WE DO, WE DO MONITOR THAT AND WE HAVE MAX THAT SAYS YOU HAVE TO TAKE A BREAK, YOU HAVE A MENTAL HEALTH BREAK, YOU HAVE TO TAKE A PHYSICAL BREAK THERE. BUT THOSE INDIVIDUALS ARE WORKING BECAUSE OTHERS MAY NOT BE BIG ENOUGH. AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO DIG IN BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT WE WORRY ABOUT THAT OFTEN AND THE IMPACT AND THE TOLLS OF WHAT OUR MEN AND WOMEN FACE WITH EVERY SINGLE DAY HERE. >> I DO WANT OUR CREWS TO MAKE MONEY AND IF THERE'S OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO WORK AS LONG AS NOT AFFECTING WHAT YOU SAID THAT LONG TERM AND PHYSICAL ACTIVITY BUT I ENCOURAGE IT AND YES THERE ARE LIMITS, THANK YOU FOR BEING PRACTICAL ABOUT IT. >> THANK YOU PRESIDENT SNYDER. JUST TO PUT THINGS IN CONTEXT, IF WE WERE FULLY STAFFED WITH 48 ADDITIONAL FIREFIGHTERS AND IF YOU INCLUDE SALARY BENEFITS, I'M SURE I'M USING A LOW NUMBER PLUS SUPPLIES, ET CETERA, LET'S SAY $150,000 PER FIREFIGHTER, THAT'S $7.2 MILLION IN ADDITIONAL FIRE DEPARTMENT BUDGET. SO I KNOW WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THIS OFTEN ABOUT THE COST OF PAYING OVERTIME VERSUS BEING 48 ADDITIONAL FIREFIGHTERS AND THERE'S ALWAYS A BALANCE THERE, AND WE HAVE TO STOCK UP FOR STATION YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB TRYING TO MANAGE THESE COSTS AND -- IS DOING BETTER AND BETTER AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE DATA YOU RECEIVE FROM THE HEALTH MONITORING YOU'RE DOING BASED ON THE NEW SCHEDULE DR. OUT OF TEXAS IS DOING GREAT DATA TO HAVE, I DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE A MOTION PRESIDENT SNYDER TO ACT ON THIS THIS EVENING LET'S BE ONE SECOND. >> THANK YOU CHIEF. >> WE CAN ACT ON THIS THIS EVENING IF YOU GUYS ARE PLANNING ON DOING SO. >> MOVE FOR APPROVAL. >> NEW BUSINESS, RESOLUTION, [14.a. Resolution CC-10-05-26-01; A Resolution of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Approving a Transfer of Funds within the Carmel Fire Department Budget (#1120); Sponsor: Councilor Taylor.] RESOLUTION CC-10-05-26-01, A RESOLUTION OF THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA, APPROVING A TRANSFER OF FUNDS WITHIN THE CARMEL FIRE DEPARTMENT BUDGET (#1120), COUNCILOR TAYLOR MOVED TO INTRODUCE. TRANSFERS 150,000 FROM EXISTING 2026 APPROPRIATIONS WITHIN THE CARMEL FIRE DEPARTMENT BUDGET. >> AND THE 150,000 IS FOR? >> ESSENTIALLY WE AREN'T MEETING ADDITIONAL -- NEEDING ADDITIONAL DOLLARS FOR GAS AND DIESEL COSTS ARE A LOT HIGHER THAN WHAT WE ANTICIPATED. >> ZACH NO SECRET DIESEL IS WAY [01:10:02] OUT OF CONTROL I CAN'T IMAGINE ONE OTHER QUESTION I ASKED THE CHIEF TONIGHT I ASKED ARE YOU SURE THIS IS ENOUGH BECAUSE IT DID NOT SEEM LIKE ANYONE'S GETTING ANY RELIEF RIGHT NOW BUT THIS IS A RESOLUTION, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS? TO FUEL OUR APPARATUS? >> MOVE FOR APPROVAL. [14.b. Resolution CC-10-05-26-02; A Resolution of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, to Limit the Rate for Taxes Payable in 2027 and Authorize Necessary Temporary Borrowing Among City Funds; Sponsor: Councilor Taylor.] >> THANK YOU. >> RESOLUTION RESOLUTION CC-10-05-26-02 A RESOLUTION OF THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA, TO LIMIT THE RATE FOR TAXES PAYABLE IN 2027 AND AUTHORIZE NECESSARY TEMPORARY BORROWING AMONG CITY FUNDS COUNSELOR TAYLOR. >> MOVED TO INTRODUCE. >> COUNSELOR TAYLOR, THIS IS GOING TO GO TO FINANCE COMMITTEE WHICH SEEMS TO GO TO ABOUT EVERY OTHER YEAR, EVERY THREE YEARS, IT'S AN UPDATE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING WE DO EVERY YEAR BUT COUNCIL. >> THE KEY TO THIS RESOLUTION IS TO DIRECT THE DEPARTMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ON THE -- THE OUTSIDE REGARDLESS OF WHERE THE LEVIES COME IN THAT OUR TAX RATE IS NOT GOING TO INCREASE AND REMAIN THE SAME AT 0.778 $0.03 PER $1000 OF THE ASSESSED VALUE. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION BEFORE THIS HITS COMMITTEE? SEEING NONE WE WILL MOVE ON. [14.c. First Reading of Ordinance D-2849-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Fixing Salaries of Appointed Officers and Employees of the Carmel City Court for the Year 2027; Sponsors: Councilors Snyder and Taylor.] A FIRST READING OF ORDINANCE D-2849-26, AN ORDINANCE OF THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA, FIXING SALARIES OF APPOINTED OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES OF THE CARMEL CITY COURT FOR THE YEAR 2027 SPONSORS SNYDER AND TAYLOR. >> MOVED TO INTRODUCE. >> THIS ESTABLISHES SALARIES FOR THE COURT, THIS WILL STAY AT THE DAIS AS IT WILL BE APPROVED WITH THE BUDGET. ANYBODY HAS COMMENTS, OBVIOUSLY WELCOME TO SPEAK NOW WE'RE MOVING ON FIRST READING OF [14.d. First Reading of Ordinance D-2850-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Fixing Salaries of Appointed Deputies and Employees of the Carmel City Clerk for the Year 2027; Sponsors: Councilors Minnaar, Snyder, Taylor and Worrell.] ORDINANCE D-2850-26, AN ORDINANCE OF THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA, FIXING SALARIES OF APPOINTED DEPUTIES AND EMPLOYEES OF THE CARMEL CITY CLERK FOR THE YEAR 2027. >> MOVED TO INTRODUCE. >> SECOND. >> IT'S HELD AT THE DAIS AND APPROVED WITH THE FULL BUDGET. SEEING NO COMMENT WE WILL MOVE [14.e. First Reading of Ordinance D-2851-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Fixing Salaries of Appointed Officers and Employees of the City of Carmel, Indiana, for the Year 2027; Sponsors: Councilors Snyder and Taylor.] ON. FIRST READING OF ORDINANCE D-2851-26, AN ORDINANCE OF THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA, FIXING SALARIES OF APPOINTED OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES OF THE CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA, FOR THE YEAR 2027 "AND TAYLOR SPONSORS. >> MOVED TO INTRODUCE A. [14.f. First Reading of Ordinance D-2852-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Fixing Salaries of Elected Officials of the City of Carmel, Indiana, for the Year 2027; Sponsors: Councilors Snyder and Taylor.] >> IT WILL BE HELD AT THE DAIS AND APPROVED WITH A COUNTER BUDGET. SEEING NO COMMENT WE WILL MOVE ON. FIRST READING OF ORDINANCE D-2852-26, AN ORDINANCE OF THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA, FIXING SALARIES OF ELECTED OFFICIALS OF THE CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA, FOR THE YEAR 2027. >> MOVED TO INTRODUCE THIS WILL BE HELD AT THE DAIS AND APPROVED WITH THE TOTAL BUDGET. >> SEEING NO COMMENTS, WE WILL [16.a. Approval of Carmel Historic Preservation Commission Administrator Appointment] MOVE ON. AGENDA ADD ON ITEMS NON, OTHER BUSINESS APPROVAL OF CARMEL HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION ADMINISTRATOR APPOINTMENT. NOT SURE WHAT WE ARE DOING WITH THIS. >> CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY NOW? >> I'M SAM BURGESS STAFF FOR CARMEL HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION. AND DURING THE QUARTERLY REPORTING WE MENTIONED WE HAD A STAFFING CHANGE THAT ALSO IMPACTED THE MANNER IN WHICH STAFF SERVES THE COMMISSION UNDER THE CITY OF CARMEL'S HISTORIC PRESERVATION ORDINANCE, THERE IS A SPECIFIC REQUIREMENT FOR THE EMPLOYMENT FOR THE COMMISSION ADMINISTRATOR. WHEN THAT ORDINANCE WAS ESTABLISHED IT WAS MARK DELACY OF INDIANA LANDMARKS WITH HIS DEPARTURE FROM THE ORGANIZATION IT WAS BOTH UPON THE COMMISSION AND NOW THE COUNCIL TO FORMALLY NAME A NEW ADMINISTRATOR. AT THE SEPTEMBER 28TH MEETING OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION THE COMMISSION VOTED TO NAME ME SAM BURGESS OF INDIANA LANDMARKS THE NEW ADMINISTRATOR, ALSO WITH THE PROVISION THAT IN MY ABSENCE OR SUBSEQUENT TO ME FOR ANY REASON [01:15:05] THAT ANOTHER QUALIFIED STAFF MEMBER OF INDIANA LANDMARKS COULD SERVE IN MY STEAD FOR THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THE ORGANIZATION AND I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH CITY LEGAL STAFF TO THAT EFFECT IS WHAT WE WERE ADVISED TO PURSUE. REALLY THE REQUEST IS JUST FOR THE APPOINTMENT OF THE NEW ADMINISTRATOR TO BE CONFIRMED BY COMMON COUNCIL TODAY. >> SAM CAN I SK YOU A QUESTION? BECAUSE I WAS FINE WITH THIS UNTIL PROVISIONAL WHATEVER, DOES IT HAVE TO BE -- DOES THE ORDINANCE READ IT HAS TO BE AN INDIVIDUAL OR CAN WE NAME THE INSTITUTION AS ADMINISTRATOR? IT SEEMS LIKE IT MIGHT BE A RESPONSIBLE WAY TO DO IT. >> AND I DO HAVE THAT SECTION OF THE ORDINANCE AVAILABLE WITH ME IF THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. >> PROBABLY NOT FOR US TO READ RIGHT NOW BUT GO AHEAD. >> DO YOU HAVE IT IN FRONT OF YOU TO PUT ON THE SCREEN? >> YES, IF I PUT IT ON THE SCREEN WILL IT? >> YES PERFECT. I DON'T KNOW HOW LEGIBLE IT IS BUT THIS IS ORDINANCE D DO26R PART FIVE THAT ADDRESSES THE COMMISSION ADMINISTRATOR. >> MR. PRESIDENT, SORRY, AS I UNDERSTAND IT WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO UPDATE THE ORDINANCE OR AMEND IT AT THIS TIME BUT WE CAN APPROVE IT, IF LEGAL WANTS TO DO RESEARCH. >> I MOVED TO NOMINATE SAM BURGESS FOR THE CARMEL HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION ADMINISTRATOR APPOINTMENT. >> SECOND. >> FURTHER DISCUSSION, YES, I DO. >> IS A PROVISIONAL THING OKAY, I JUST SAID NOMINATE SOMEONE AND IF HE DON'T SHOW UP THIS PERSON IS THE DIRECTOR IS THAT A NORMAL PRACTICE. >> CAN WE A POINT THE GENTLEMAN MR. BURGESS AND MOVE ON? >> I THINK THAT WOULD BE AKIN TO LISTING A NAME OR THEIR DESIGNEE IN THIS SENSE IN THE EVENT THAT MR. BURGESS WAS NOT AVAILABLE SOMEONE ELSE WOULD COME IN FOR THAT PARTICULAR MEETING IF THE LENGTH OF TIME DID NOT. >> THE MAYOR'S DESIGNEE ACTUALLY WOULD BE SOMEONE IN THE EXECUTIVE OFFICE, WE DON'T KNOW LANDMRKS IS A THIRD PARTY. >> WE COULD AMEND IT LATER TO ADD A DESIGNEE, THE LAST SENTENCE SAYS THE COMMISSION MIGHT BE EMPLOY AT THE HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION WE COULD ADD SOMETHING AT SOME POINT TO SAY THEY MIGHT A POINT A DESIGNEE FROM THAT. I DO WANT TO JUST CAUTION US IN THE WORLD OF FUTURE AI AND SCARY THINGS THAT I THINK ALL APPOINTEES SHOULD BE PEOPLE AND NOT LEGAL FICTIONS AS WE MOVE INTO THE FUTURE I DO THINK THERE'S A WAY TO ADD THAT IF THAT'S AN IMPORTANT THING FOR RECOMMENDATION FROM HISTORIC PRESERVATION SOCIETY MOVING FORWARD BUT. >> THE COUNCILOR AYERS MOTION IS APPOINTING A DIRECTOR AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING AND I'M FINE WITH THAT. I WOULD LIKE TO JUST, YOU SAID THIS WAS FOR -- FIRST WRITTEN IN 2011, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS GET A CURSORY REVIEW. IF YOU WANT TO DO IT YOURSELF, WE CAN SEND IT TO A COMMITTEE FOR REVIEW I DON'T PARTICULARLY CARE BUT MAKE SURE THIS IS, HAS BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE THIS WAS WRITTEN. >> THAT'S TRUE AND I WOULD SAY, WE'VE IDENTIFIED THE THINGS THAT COULD CERTAINLY BE APPROVED IN THE ORDINANCE. >> WE WILL GET THROUGH THIS VOTE BUT WE SEND IT TO YOUR COMMITTEE WITH THIS DESIGNEE WITHIN YOUR COMMITTEE TO UPDATE TO SEND TO THE COUNCIL WHATEVER CHANGES YOU THINK ARE NEEDED IN THIS ORDINANCE FOR OUR REVIEW, WOULD THAT WORK? >> I THINK THERE WOULD BE AN INTEREST IN THAT ABSOLUTELY. ONE THING, IF I MAY I WILL ADD THIS ORDINANCE IS BASED ON STATE STATUTE THAT SERVES AS A MODEL FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION ORDINANCES AROUND INDIANA. [01:20:05] EVEN THOUGH IT'S BASED ON AN OLDER MODEL IT IS VERY STANDARD, MOSTLY THE DOCUMENT THAT WAS ADOPTED WITH SOME MODIFICATIONS TO PERSONALIZED FOR CARMEL'S USE. >> YOU WILL REVIEW IT AND GET BACK TO US BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR? >> ABSOLUTELY. >> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. >> THANK YOU. >> CONGRATULATIONS MR. BURGESS. >> ANNOUNCEMENTS. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.